Comments on: The Freedom to Innovate Without Permission http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/09/21/the-freedom-to-innovate-without-permission.html Musings of a techie lawyer Sun, 20 May 2012 19:42:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-bleeding By: Francois Lefebvre http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/09/21/the-freedom-to-innovate-without-permission.html#comment-4525 Francois Lefebvre Sun, 04 Oct 2009 02:38:13 +0000 http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/?p=615#comment-4525 What do we mean by "open systems" here. Am I mistaking or is it right that THE key aspect of the internet protocols (http, TCP/IP, ...) is that they are all "royalty free". I believe that this is where the architects were visionaries and generous. Only Truly open infrastructures can only be built on royalty-free system components. What do we mean by “open systems” here. Am I mistaking or is it right that THE key aspect of the internet protocols (http, TCP/IP, …) is that they are all “royalty free”. I believe that this is where the architects were visionaries and generous. Only Truly open infrastructures can only be built on royalty-free system components.

]]> By: Jim Fleming http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/09/21/the-freedom-to-innovate-without-permission.html#comment-4476 Jim Fleming Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:04:31 +0000 http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/?p=615#comment-4476 [they only follow and document the “rough consensus and running code.” ] I hope that there is NEVER an RFC ever written for any of the protocols or CODE that I have produced. It is a MAJOR challenge to make it either illegal or impossible for that to happen. There is now a higher degree of confidence that we can make our work open source and not have it stolen and claimed to be a product of THE Big Lie Society. [they only follow and document the “rough consensus and running code.” ]

I hope that there is NEVER an RFC ever written for any of the protocols or CODE that I have produced.
It is a MAJOR challenge to make it either illegal or impossible for that to happen.

There is now a higher degree of confidence that we can make our work open source and not have it
stolen and claimed to be a product of THE Big Lie Society.

]]> By: wseltzer http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/09/21/the-freedom-to-innovate-without-permission.html#comment-4471 wseltzer Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:57:21 +0000 http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/?p=615#comment-4471 Thanks Jim, I didn't mean to imply that RFCs were the start or the end -- they only follow and document the "rough consensus and running code." At some stage, though, when a system becomes too complex to be governed informally, it needs this external codification. Whether the transition from norms to rules comes from RFCs, statutes, or FCC rulemaking, it sets a framework against which we can say "that doesn't cut it." We're at the point where we need to be able to make that judgment about services billed as "Internet." Thanks Jim, I didn’t mean to imply that RFCs were the start or the end — they only follow and document the “rough consensus and running code.” At some stage, though, when a system becomes too complex to be governed informally, it needs this external codification. Whether the transition from norms to rules comes from RFCs, statutes, or FCC rulemaking, it sets a framework against which we can say “that doesn’t cut it.” We’re at the point where we need to be able to make that judgment about services billed as “Internet.”

]]> By: Jim Fleming http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/09/21/the-freedom-to-innovate-without-permission.html#comment-4470 Jim Fleming Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:32:18 +0000 http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/?p=615#comment-4470 The concept of Freedom and RFCs do not go together. Neither do the words Innovate and RFCs. HTML did not start with RFCs. Asterisk and many VOIP developments have wisely avoided RFCs. Many IEEE Standards by professionals with college degrees are not RFCs. Services such as Twitter are not based on RFCs. As Lessig points out in various books and essays, CODE is what sets policies. Lawyers clearly may not like that. Some lawyers have decided to impersonate techies. Most are easily exposed as frauds, although some make it into the Whitehouse. None of those activities produce the code needed to move the ball down the field. Hopefully, the U.S. FCC will not get tied into the Cargo Cults that worship RFCs. The concept of Freedom and RFCs do not go together. Neither do the words Innovate and RFCs.

HTML did not start with RFCs.
Asterisk and many VOIP developments have wisely avoided RFCs.
Many IEEE Standards by professionals with college degrees are not RFCs.

Services such as Twitter are not based on RFCs.

As Lessig points out in various books and essays, CODE is what sets policies.
Lawyers clearly may not like that. Some lawyers have decided to impersonate techies.
Most are easily exposed as frauds, although some make it into the Whitehouse.
None of those activities produce the code needed to move the ball down the field.

Hopefully, the U.S. FCC will not get tied into the Cargo Cults that worship RFCs.

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