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	<title>Comments on: The FCC Stumbles into Internet Filtering</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html</link>
	<description>Musings of a techie lawyer</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Vaquero</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3961</link>
		<dc:creator>Vaquero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 02:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3961</guid>
		<description>I just found this and it seems to me that this is not a good thing...
In my opinion this can ONLY move to more censorship.
It starts with porn and only will move on.
I would not let my child under 10 go on the internet unless I am right next to him/her and I if my child is 5 he/she does not need to go on the internet at all.
Where does it stop.
The goverment as our parents.
Grow up people and take responsibility for yourself and your own family.
The government is not your friend.
Its not your mother.
It is a bunch of power hungry people who want to control every aspect of you and your families lives.
Hope everyone knows what hyperinflation is...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just found this and it seems to me that this is not a good thing&#8230;<br />
In my opinion this can ONLY move to more censorship.<br />
It starts with porn and only will move on.<br />
I would not let my child under 10 go on the internet unless I am right next to him/her and I if my child is 5 he/she does not need to go on the internet at all.<br />
Where does it stop.<br />
The goverment as our parents.<br />
Grow up people and take responsibility for yourself and your own family.<br />
The government is not your friend.<br />
Its not your mother.<br />
It is a bunch of power hungry people who want to control every aspect of you and your families lives.<br />
Hope everyone knows what hyperinflation is&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Shava Nerad</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3415</link>
		<dc:creator>Shava Nerad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3415</guid>
		<description>&#62;filters or blocks images and text that constitute obscenity or 
&#62;pornography and, in context, as measured by contemporary community 
&#62;standards and existing law, any images or text that otherwise would 
&#62;be harmful to teens and adolescents. For purposes of this rule, teens 
&#62;and adolescents are children 5 through 17 years of age;

Aren't they redefining both teen/adolescent (last I checked, five year olds were neither)?  Wendy, do you know why they didn't formulate it as just "minors?"

But more to the point aren't they redefining the law?

Last I heard, the Supremes said the government can outlaw material based on the following standard: "whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."

There really is nothing in there about harm to adolescents, which would be a hard case to prove.

All that aside, the conflict library filtering has been going through for years shows that content can't be reasonably filtered in a way that allows an adult restricted to the same common carrier band rightful access to important information.  For example, filtering often flags sites on breast cancer or AIDS prevention.  Although these sites may portray primary or secondary sexual characteristics, the fight vs. the CDA showed that you can't restrict a public resource from carrying this kind of information, as I remember.

However, this could be judge similar to CIPA, which restricts even adult access to similar information via a library computer.

Roger and Nim -- if you think that a law that purports to protect children from the Internet has that as its only agenda, you are terrifically naive.  Every law that has come down the pike to restrict rights lately is either to protect you from being bombed by terrorists, or to keep your children safe from boogeymen.

Laws are, universally, rhetorically constructed so that in their sound bite form they seem like no one could possibly disagree with them and still be a reasonable human being.  But it's our duties as Jeffersonian citizens to transcend this kind of adrenal rhetoric and try to understand the law in the context of our whole society.

Please think about the context of the law.  If you believe that legislation is about what it overtly states, the patriot act is also about being good Americans, No Child Left Behind is about making sure every disadvantaged child in the US has a decent education, and FISA is used to tap the Friends Service Committee because they are a terrorist organization.

We are experiencing an unprecedented erosion of our rights in recent years.  My civil liberties are a baby I do not want to throw out in your perceived bathwater.

Eternal vigilance and all that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;filters or blocks images and text that constitute obscenity or<br />
&gt;pornography and, in context, as measured by contemporary community<br />
&gt;standards and existing law, any images or text that otherwise would<br />
&gt;be harmful to teens and adolescents. For purposes of this rule, teens<br />
&gt;and adolescents are children 5 through 17 years of age;</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t they redefining both teen/adolescent (last I checked, five year olds were neither)?  Wendy, do you know why they didn&#8217;t formulate it as just &#8220;minors?&#8221;</p>
<p>But more to the point aren&#8217;t they redefining the law?</p>
<p>Last I heard, the Supremes said the government can outlaw material based on the following standard: &#8220;whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.&#8221;</p>
<p>There really is nothing in there about harm to adolescents, which would be a hard case to prove.</p>
<p>All that aside, the conflict library filtering has been going through for years shows that content can&#8217;t be reasonably filtered in a way that allows an adult restricted to the same common carrier band rightful access to important information.  For example, filtering often flags sites on breast cancer or AIDS prevention.  Although these sites may portray primary or secondary sexual characteristics, the fight vs. the CDA showed that you can&#8217;t restrict a public resource from carrying this kind of information, as I remember.</p>
<p>However, this could be judge similar to CIPA, which restricts even adult access to similar information via a library computer.</p>
<p>Roger and Nim &#8212; if you think that a law that purports to protect children from the Internet has that as its only agenda, you are terrifically naive.  Every law that has come down the pike to restrict rights lately is either to protect you from being bombed by terrorists, or to keep your children safe from boogeymen.</p>
<p>Laws are, universally, rhetorically constructed so that in their sound bite form they seem like no one could possibly disagree with them and still be a reasonable human being.  But it&#8217;s our duties as Jeffersonian citizens to transcend this kind of adrenal rhetoric and try to understand the law in the context of our whole society.</p>
<p>Please think about the context of the law.  If you believe that legislation is about what it overtly states, the patriot act is also about being good Americans, No Child Left Behind is about making sure every disadvantaged child in the US has a decent education, and FISA is used to tap the Friends Service Committee because they are a terrorist organization.</p>
<p>We are experiencing an unprecedented erosion of our rights in recent years.  My civil liberties are a baby I do not want to throw out in your perceived bathwater.</p>
<p>Eternal vigilance and all that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Roy Garner</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3412</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Roy Garner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3412</guid>
		<description>Wow, banning porn, gee, if only it were that simple, thanks to forcing the entire industry to use the .COM vice .XXX which was proposed by the porn industry and then shot down, we have today the era of pop up advertisements, banner ads, porn web sites from across the world all over .com and .net sites...

But hey, what happens when a "porn" item is discovered on this publicly free arena?  Are the lawyers going to line up?  Private citizen going to sue?  

Right now it is just about impossible to ban porn on a large scale, do they really think they are going to be able to do this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, banning porn, gee, if only it were that simple, thanks to forcing the entire industry to use the .COM vice .XXX which was proposed by the porn industry and then shot down, we have today the era of pop up advertisements, banner ads, porn web sites from across the world all over .com and .net sites&#8230;</p>
<p>But hey, what happens when a &#8220;porn&#8221; item is discovered on this publicly free arena?  Are the lawyers going to line up?  Private citizen going to sue?  </p>
<p>Right now it is just about impossible to ban porn on a large scale, do they really think they are going to be able to do this?</p>
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		<title>By: isoc-ny.org - Internet Society - New York chapter</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator>isoc-ny.org - Internet Society - New York chapter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3409</guid>
		<description>[...] Seltzer discusses the content filtering provision on her blog today. She notes the requirement that Should any commercially-available network filters [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Seltzer discusses the content filtering provision on her blog today. She notes the requirement that Should any commercially-available network filters [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nim</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator>Nim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3408</guid>
		<description>&#62;Licensees must keep their users from accessing porn

Some may think the more porn available the better society we are building.
Sorry, but I really don't feel like fighting for granting our children access to porn. Not in a family oriented service, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Licensees must keep their users from accessing porn</p>
<p>Some may think the more porn available the better society we are building.<br />
Sorry, but I really don&#8217;t feel like fighting for granting our children access to porn. Not in a family oriented service, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Williams</title>
		<link>http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3407</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2008/06/25/the-fcc-stumbles-into-internet-filtering.html#comment-3407</guid>
		<description>Legal gobbledygook aside, this is a ridiculous analysis. TV broadcasters can’t broadcast smut into our homes at their will. Why shouldn’t free internet be anything different? Blocking websites where pornography or other harmful images are clearly posted (e.g. suckmydick.com) and where banners ads or other traffic redirects might otherwise unwittingly divert a 5 yr old child is a perfectly reasonable expectation by the FCC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legal gobbledygook aside, this is a ridiculous analysis. TV broadcasters can’t broadcast smut into our homes at their will. Why shouldn’t free internet be anything different? Blocking websites where pornography or other harmful images are clearly posted (e.g. suckmydick.com) and where banners ads or other traffic redirects might otherwise unwittingly divert a 5 yr old child is a perfectly reasonable expectation by the FCC.</p>
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